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branchandroot: Ed upside down (Ed upside down)
[personal profile] branchandroot
Just tripped over a particularly clear moment of idiocy on Wikipedia, pointing to a Rowling chat transcript. It's about Gryffindor's sword, and the goblins.

Now, I recall fairly clearly that there was, shall we say, cultural conflict at work in that case. A goblin work was handed to someone for money. In human understanding it was sold. In goblin understanding it was leased.

(See, we even have human ideas for the difference.)

So later on, when Gryffindor died and the sword was not returned, the goblins came all over pissed, because that, by their lights, was theft.

The wiki entry says "Gryffindor did not steal the sword from Ragnuk and that this belief is merely part of Griphook's goblin mistrust and prejudice against wizards." Rowling herself said "Griphook was wrong - Gryffindor did not 'steal' the sword, not unless you are a goblin fanatic and believe that all goblin-made objects really belong to the maker."

Which tells me that the writer herself could not wrap her brain around the idea that by goblin laws the goblins were right, and that, while the humans were right by their own laws, those laws were not the only ones involved in this case and not the only standard by which it should be judged. This despite having written the situation herself.

That, right there. That's how she could write the house elves the way she did and not think it was problematic.

Date: 2009-11-28 05:55 pm (UTC)
annotated_em: cross-section of a lemon (Default)
From: [personal profile] annotated_em
*whistles* Wow. Major fail, right there.

Date: 2009-11-28 06:52 pm (UTC)
ldybastet: A branch with sakura flowers (Sakura)
From: [personal profile] ldybastet
So very true. And then she boggled at how so many people could *like* the stand-in Others that she'd written... or even just see their viewpoint. :( I thought that was, like, something a writer just did, see the different viewpoints and motivations of their different characters. Rowling proved to me how silly I've been thinking that.

Date: 2009-11-28 06:02 pm (UTC)
jetsam: (Default)
From: [personal profile] jetsam
Bk7 fell to pieces in so many ways

I rather like the goblins, myself

Date: 2009-11-28 06:05 pm (UTC)
jetsam: (Default)
From: [personal profile] jetsam
This is true

7 in particular, though. I've been poking holes in 7 all afternoon, so

Date: 2009-11-28 07:02 pm (UTC)
ysobel: (Default)
From: [personal profile] ysobel
...whaaaat.

Date: 2009-11-28 10:53 pm (UTC)
flourish: (Default)
From: [personal profile] flourish
Yeah.

Sigh.

Date: 2009-11-29 01:40 am (UTC)
afuna: Cat under a blanket. Text: "Cats are just little people with Fur and Fangs" (Default)
From: [personal profile] afuna
Oh. I'd been hoping that issues like these were some kind of subtle and clever commentary; it is pretty disappointing to find out that it's being played straight.

Date: 2009-11-29 03:26 am (UTC)
bell: rory gilmore running in the snow in a fancy dress (morphine)
From: [personal profile] bell
...........That explains so much. Unfortunately. :[ Like how the house elves are basically still enslaved, and how Hogwarts remains mostly human, how Hagrid is never really/completely/truly accepted in the wizard community, etc. Despite the theme of "be more accepting!!!" 0rz

Date: 2009-11-29 03:41 am (UTC)
bell: rory gilmore running in the snow in a fancy dress (kutner)
From: [personal profile] bell
"We'll like you as long you don't defy the status quo! We'll decide how much progress you get."

Date: 2009-11-30 01:45 am (UTC)
mitsuhachi: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mitsuhachi
...this is why authorial intent as TEH WURD OF GAWD makes me break out in hives.

Date: 2009-12-01 01:14 am (UTC)
kaigou: this is what I do, darling (4 astonishment is the root of philosophy)
From: [personal profile] kaigou
Oi, the post is locked. May I quote you as the benevolent mind who enlightened me as to Rowling's total fail, or just reference the general content and let people live in mystery as to what brilliant soul carries blame for some of my madness?

Date: 2009-12-01 01:27 am (UTC)
kaigou: Edward, losing it. (1 Edward conniption)
From: [personal profile] kaigou
thanks!

Date: 2009-12-04 03:07 am (UTC)
krait: a sea snake (krait) swimming (Default)
From: [personal profile] krait
I. I just. Wot.

I can't even imagine how someone can create two sets of laws for two sets of creatures, and then not being ABLE to see them as equal.

I just. HOW?

Date: 2009-12-10 03:32 am (UTC)
krait: a sea snake (krait) swimming (Default)
From: [personal profile] krait
I keep concluding that she's "keeping in character" -- i.e. were the Wizarding World real, she (as a human, and presumably a witch since she knows about the WW) would naturally back her fellow humans/wizards, because that's how wizarding society works at this current point in time.

...I knew that I've always sought Watsonian workarounds for canon issues in my various fandoms, but I hadn't realised it was so strong a tendency I could build something like that.

Date: 2009-12-10 03:48 am (UTC)
krait: a sea snake (krait) swimming (Default)
From: [personal profile] krait
I know. *rueful* I have this tendency to bend logic and motive into pretzel knots if it will keep a universe I love intact. :D

And I don't think she's necessarily thought it out per se, but in her head she sees herself (on the Wizarding scale) as One of Them, and her answers are coloured by that even if she can't explain why.

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