Actually quite good people skills

[branchandroot]

Brief Guardian meta, because I keep tripping over mentions, here and there, interpreting Shen Wei as having bad people skills, sometimes phrased as “how do human?”. And it’s just so opposite my own reading of the character that it trips me up in the middle of writing, and then I sit there for a few minutes staring into space and blinking in befuddlement.

I mean. Shen Wei is a teacher. And while it’s quite possible to get a job teaching with bad people skills (especially, alas, at university level), you do not get to be a popular professor with bad people skills. All the professional interactions we see are him being welcoming and encouraging to his students and sympathetic to people Having Emotions (eg Li Qian and Zhang Ruonan). And then there’s his reaction to being brought in for questioning, early on, which is to play every questioner like a violin—and he only has unfair prior knowledge of one. He also has that effortless non-verbal communication with Zhao Yunlan even when they’re fighting. And while it’s romantic to say that’s because they love each other, True Love does not automatically make a person able to pick up non-verbal cues. (Be nice if it did, but alas, no.)

The only moment I can see that truly demonstrates interpersonal awkwardness is when Zhao Yunlan prompts him to comfort a distraught woman, at which point Shen Wei takes a hasty step back and shoves Zhao Yunlan himself into the breach. And, really, that read far more strongly to me of “You want me to do what with a woman?”. Considering how fast Zhao Yunlan beats a parallel retreat on being confronted with a woman trying to confess her love, I really hesitate to take such behavior as a general indicator of low people skills.

Shen Wei is habitually autocratic, when he’s in Official Mode. He’s intensely reserved about personal things, unless of course he’s talking to Zhao Yunlan. He’s easily flustered when presented with hope where he thought there was none. But bad at people, or even at silly humans and their rules? I just don’t see it.

Comments

[qikiqtarjuaq]

I think he has really good professional interpersonal skills. He is a caring teacher who encourages and empathizes with his students and colleagues. And as part of his Black-Cloaked Envoy duties, I think he's also pretty skilled at verbal sparring/questioning that kind of come hand-in-hand with chasing down criminals.

But I also think he struggles with anything deeper and more intimate and letting people in. Even Chu Shuzhi who he trusts and works with doesn't really count as much of a friend. Even with Zhao Yunlan, who he loves, he doesn't always succeed at communicating or navigating the ups and downs of their relationship. I think Zhao Yunlan's emotional maturity and patience plays a huge part in how they are able to be successful in the show.

The situation with Dr. Cheng I do find a little unusual, because he seems to have no issues comforting Li Qian for her loss. But maybe it's the difference between colleagues vs someone he feels he has a mentorship relationship with.

[trobadora]

You know, I don't think Zhao Yunlan is that much better at actually letting people in? Intimacy is hard for both of them. Zhao Yunlan is much better with other stuff, but with that, they're not so far apart.

[winter_blossom]

Absolutely this! The way I read it, ZYL is just as much of an introvert, and almost as responsible for their issues in miscommunications, as SW. I think it's also the reason that he was so much smoother and more suave at the beginning of their relationship, when most of his actions were manipulative or had a stronger intention to seduce than to interact on a serious emotional level, than later on. For example, the way he reacted to the eye-healing, while perfectly understandable, did not in any way convey to SW that the reason for his fury was that he didn't want SW to hurt himself for his sake, but rather that he was annoyed about being lied to and concerned about being indebted. I don't blame him, of course, and doubtless the censorship had something to do with it (I don't think "how dare you try to drain away your life when I want to spend the rest of mine with you!" would have gotten past the censors ^^), but the point stands. And SW's barriers are high enough that nothing short of a direct statement would ever be able to get above them.

[trobadora]

For example, the way he reacted to the eye-healing, while perfectly understandable, did not in any way convey to SW that the reason for his fury was that he didn't want SW to hurt himself for his sake, but rather that he was annoyed about being lied to and concerned about being indebted.

Good point! Zhao Yunlan definitely is responsible for some missteps and miscommunications, and I think you're right that he's much more comfortable when he has another goal as a cover. And he has a hard time letting go of that and be genuine.

[qikiqtarjuaq]

That much seems to be true on the romantic front. Zhao Yunlan has never had a relationship he considered to be a serious/deep until Shen Wei, and even at the end before he gave up his life, he's lamenting "Oh, maybe my being single for so long was because this was to be my fate."

But it feels like Zhao Yunlan has deeper general connections in general. His friendship with Da Qing especially feels so genuine and trusting. And he has his found family with the SID. I guess that's why I get the impression that while he's never found much romantic success, he is better at letting people in when he deems them trustworthy enough.

[trobadora]

Completely agreed on the romantic part, and Da Qing! But about the SID team as a found family, I was just talking to china_shop about this the other day, and I don't think Zhao Yunlan is actually that close to anyone but Da Qing at the start of the show. Not that he doesn't care about them, but he's still keeping them at arm's length emotionally, and hides what's going on in his head/his heart. He projects a cheerful and somewhat callous persona, and no one really knows what's underneath. (Witness them talking about him being cold, early on.) But by the end of the show they really are a family, and they all genuinely know him. I think that's a big part of Zhao Yunlan's character arc over the course of the show, actually ...

[solo]

OMG I'm really really late to this party and I was just reading all the discussion I missed with interest when I came across this.

he's lamenting "Oh, maybe my being single for so long was because this was to be my fate."

I don't think he's lamenting - I don't think he regrets a thing about being single. He's never been interested in traditional marriage and he makes that very clear in that one taxi ride. I read this one as semi-humorous bravado, nothing more. :)

Forgive me for the belated disagreement.

[qikiqtarjuaq]

It may be me osmosing something from the novel, but it felt like he was a little lonely and unhappy that he wasn't able to make a deeper romantic connection, whether he made it official with a marriage or not. (And in that moment, the one person he did fall in love with has died ;_; so he's right back where he started.)

[solo]

I guess we're just reading the same given text slightly differently. I felt like he was all out of fucks to give about hypothetical romantic relationships, now that Shen Wei is gone. I really thought it was more 'okay, great, at least I'm not leaving behind a grieving widow and eight hungry children, yay.'

But who knows!! :D

[branchandroot]

*ponders* That’s a really interesting point, because Zhao Yunlan also reads to me as having a great deal of difficulty letting people in. He shows emotion far more easily, but whether that emotion is genuine... well, whenever he’s smiling I pretty much tick the box for “this is manipulation”. He does demonstrate trust in others more easily, at least for the extremely limited subset of his team, but of course that’s what makes his see-saw of trust/don’t-trust with Shen Wei so poignant, especially when Shen Wei is standing there wearing a mask but still holding out his heart in his hand. They’re just a fascinating study in parallels and opposites.

(Thank you for such a thought-provoking comment!)

[winter_blossom]

...but of course that’s what makes his see-saw of trust/don’t-trust with Shen Wei so poignant, especially when Shen Wei is standing there wearing a mask but still holding out his heart in his hand...

I think you just broke my heart with that line! A perfect summary of their relationship, and why, in a way, I don't 100% believe they were a couple in the drama like they were in the novel (no matter how much I want to!) They're a bit too similar re: masks and boundaries and insurmountable walls of introversion compared to their novel selves to ever have been able to get together. Heck, if they'd been better at communication, they might both have survived the finale! (Not that I'm complaining; I personally liked the ending, heartbroken though I was.)

[qikiqtarjuaq]

I think Zhao Yunlan has the "I am schmoozing with people because a Chief has gotta do what a Chief has gotta do" smile, and he also has a genuine smile for the people he cares about, like when he's snuggling with Da Qing on the couch, or when he sees Shen Wei for the first time after his eyes are cured.

The first bit of cat-and-mouse games he had with Shen Wei definitely had a quality of him wanting to trust Shen Wei, and being drawn to Shen Wei in a way he's never felt before. But also still maintaining his suspicion - I call his approach back then flirt-terrogations :P. I think they never truly get past that until the time travel occurs, and by then things have gone to hell too much for them to communicate. On some levels, I wish the bench relaxation scene had happened after the time travel!

I love what you said about Shen Wei wearing a mask and not revealing all of himself, but whole-heartedly loving Zhao Yunlan without any doubt.

[china_shop]

Even Chu Shuzhi who he trusts and works with doesn't really count as much of a friend.

I always assumed that was on Chu Shuzhi? In episode 2, at the first private meeting we see between them, isn't Shen Wei all, "We could be friends," and Chu Shuzhi all, "I am your very loyal servant, sir!"? Or am I misremembering?

(This is not a new problem for the Envoy, after all. Maybe one of his main motivations in choosing to become a professor was to meet more people/make more friends?)

[qikiqtarjuaq]

Yeah, that might be! Lao Chu has too much of a hero worship complex for Heipao to really have an equal relationship between them. Poor lonely Envoy! That was a problem he had in the past too and why Kunlun meant so much to him!

[solo]

And it's really interesting that in ep 4, even Lao Chu is actually concerned about the Envoy not confiding in anyone and being all alone (and he doesn't mean himself).