Actually quite good people skills

[branchandroot]

Brief Guardian meta, because I keep tripping over mentions, here and there, interpreting Shen Wei as having bad people skills, sometimes phrased as “how do human?”. And it’s just so opposite my own reading of the character that it trips me up in the middle of writing, and then I sit there for a few minutes staring into space and blinking in befuddlement.

I mean. Shen Wei is a teacher. And while it’s quite possible to get a job teaching with bad people skills (especially, alas, at university level), you do not get to be a popular professor with bad people skills. All the professional interactions we see are him being welcoming and encouraging to his students and sympathetic to people Having Emotions (eg Li Qian and Zhang Ruonan). And then there’s his reaction to being brought in for questioning, early on, which is to play every questioner like a violin—and he only has unfair prior knowledge of one. He also has that effortless non-verbal communication with Zhao Yunlan even when they’re fighting. And while it’s romantic to say that’s because they love each other, True Love does not automatically make a person able to pick up non-verbal cues. (Be nice if it did, but alas, no.)

The only moment I can see that truly demonstrates interpersonal awkwardness is when Zhao Yunlan prompts him to comfort a distraught woman, at which point Shen Wei takes a hasty step back and shoves Zhao Yunlan himself into the breach. And, really, that read far more strongly to me of “You want me to do what with a woman?”. Considering how fast Zhao Yunlan beats a parallel retreat on being confronted with a woman trying to confess her love, I really hesitate to take such behavior as a general indicator of low people skills.

Shen Wei is habitually autocratic, when he’s in Official Mode. He’s intensely reserved about personal things, unless of course he’s talking to Zhao Yunlan. He’s easily flustered when presented with hope where he thought there was none. But bad at people, or even at silly humans and their rules? I just don’t see it.

Comments

[xparrot]

Hmmm. I agree that Shen Wei has decent interpersonal skills -- he's quite reserved and formal and doesn't have much (any?) of a social life beyond work (until/except for Zhao Yunlan), but he's very functional professionally (both as the professor and as the BCE). And he is reasonably good at reading people and playing them when needed.

On the other hand, his intrapersonal skills are...limited, in that he doesn't seem to have a personal life until he meets Zhao Yunlan; he doesn't seem to have hobbies, he doesn't put a lot of value on his own life but is very willing to sacrifice himself to his causes. Most of the decisions he makes for himself are in the name of restraint, of denying and ignoring his own wants and needs as much as he can (except again when it comes to Zhao Yunlan). Most of the comments I've seen referring to Shen Wei's inability to "people" were more referring to this side of him -- not that he's bad with other people, but that he's bad at treating himself like a person.

ETA: also at least for me, I also am thinking about novel!Shen Wei, who literally isn't close to human and is erratic about how successfully he pretends to be one!

[bonibaru]

I agree that drama Shen Wei is good at human interactions. The only time he's terrible at human-ing is when it comes to knowing the emotional language of Zhao Yunlan, and don't we all just know in some way what that's like? lol.

[china_shop]

I agree! I think the show makes a point of showing him being good with students, friends (Dr Cheng!) and colleagues.

I feel like there's a bit of a tendency to hold him to a weirdly high standard compared to the other characters, and mark him down whenever he's perceived not to meet it.

And then there’s his reaction to being brought in for questioning, early on, which is to play every questioner like a violin

Hee! Yes! ♥ :-)

[jo_lasalle]

And, really, that read far more strongly to me of “You want me to do what with a woman?”

I admit I don't find the "she's a woman!" explanation for that height of awkwardness scene convincing, especially since some of his best interpersonal skills come out around Li Qian. But I'm also genuinely curious: do you see any indication that if Dr. Cheng were a man mourning the death of his brother, Shen Wei would have an easier time going up to him and offering comfort?

ETA: I was originally going to bounce off Xparrot's comment but then realised I'd missed a crucial line there, so putting it here separately after all. To me where "not knowing how to human" comes in is primarily with lack of experience. Shen Wei has a lot of experience with some things (all that war fighting, envoying, professoring) but there are IMO also parts of the human experience that he hasn't had that much to do with (partly through his self-denial and waiting tendencies, partly through the Zhao Yunlan single focus, partly through all the war fighting and envoying he's had to do), and IMO that shows when suddenly he's confronted with them. My prime example is his (IMO) profound Not Getting of what the deal is with Zhao Yunlan and his dad, and then despite being generally attuned to Zhao Yunlan handling Zhao Yunlan catching him at a tea date with Zhao Xinci not well (and knowing he's not handling it well). He's not terrible or the only person who would be flaily in such a moment, mind. But to me that falls into the "Shen Wei lacks some experiences that are directly tied to being closely emotionally tangled up with other humans so when he's closely emotionally tangled up with other humans, sometimes the inexperience shows". That doesn't negate all the ways he's good at handling himself, especially IMO in more structured situations, but to me that's a thing that's there.

But "not knowing how to human" is also a shorthand, which can be a bit broad strokes, and apparently this is one that can push people's buttons. *g*

[qikiqtarjuaq]

I think he has really good professional interpersonal skills. He is a caring teacher who encourages and empathizes with his students and colleagues. And as part of his Black-Cloaked Envoy duties, I think he's also pretty skilled at verbal sparring/questioning that kind of come hand-in-hand with chasing down criminals.

But I also think he struggles with anything deeper and more intimate and letting people in. Even Chu Shuzhi who he trusts and works with doesn't really count as much of a friend. Even with Zhao Yunlan, who he loves, he doesn't always succeed at communicating or navigating the ups and downs of their relationship. I think Zhao Yunlan's emotional maturity and patience plays a huge part in how they are able to be successful in the show.

The situation with Dr. Cheng I do find a little unusual, because he seems to have no issues comforting Li Qian for her loss. But maybe it's the difference between colleagues vs someone he feels he has a mentorship relationship with.

[amara1783]

I don't read Shen Wei as bad at people either, except a bit inexperienced at close personal relationships.

A reason I could think of that he maybe wouldn't want to comfort Cheng Xinyan is that he might not want to give her the wrong idea - maybe she had a crush on him when they were at uni perhaps?

[trobadora]

Thank you so much for this post, because your thoughts are my thoughts. ♥

About Dr Cheng, I don't think it's about her being a woman, though. And I think if Zhao Yunlan hadn't been there he would have gone and comforted her. But since Zhao Yunlan is there, he doesn't have to. (I feel like people conflate "doesn't like doing x" with "is bad at doing x" a lot, when it comes to things like this.)

[winter_blossom]

Sort of in reference to xparrot's comment, above:

I think one of the biggest problems is that people try to equate/generalise drama characterisation and novel characterisation. Neither Shen Wei nor Zhao Yunlan are even remotely the same people in the drama compared to the novel, and I firmly believe that we should keep the two canons entirely separate in order to avoid mischaracterisation. I personally get a bit annoyed when people write drama!ZYL as a shameless playboy (though I do agree with the reading that he's bi and has been 'round the block a bit ^^), or SW as an obsessive, possessive dark creature; there is no evidence whatsoever for either of those traits in show canon, imo. Novel Shen Wei is a demon, a creature who is extremely different from a human in terms of biological makeup, psychology, upbringing (such as it were), moral values, etc., etc. So it makes sense for him to fail at being human (in fact, I don't believe he should even try to hide his nature, because why should he?), but not for drama!SW who is, essentially, from a cousin species of humans. Dixingren are shown in drama canon, over and over, to not be all that different from Haixingren, especially when it comes to emotions and relationships. Heck, I'd call it one of the major themes of the show, so it doesn't make sense to me to read the most important Dixingren in the story as someone ineptly pretending to be human for the sake of his lover!

To answer the OP:

I totally agree that Shen Wei's interpersonal skills are perfectly normal! However, he does flounder a bit re: ZYL, not because he's bad at understanding him or empathising with him, but because he does seem to be new to the concept of selfishly coveting something/someone for himself where previously his various duties were his only love. So he seems to think only about how best to protect ZYL and make him happy, regardless of the cost to himself; essentially, I think, viewing their interactions through the lens of "responsibility/duty," which is familiar to him and which he's good at, not realising that a relationship (whether it's based on romantic love or platonic, however one wishes to read their drama dynamic, which imo can go either way) is a two-way street and that sharing burdens is an essential part of a personal relationship as opposed to a professional one. Hence the adamant secret-keeping and self-sacrificing, and the frequent head-butting with ZYL over the same.