There really are times

[branchandroot]

Normally, you know, I scoff at the people who respond to any variation of "you depicted people who are like me as $DISGUSTINGLY_BIGOTED_STEREOTYPE in your fic, could you not do that?" with cries of "What do you mean I can't write about this?!". Because, of course, that isn't what any sane person involved actually said, and pretending they did is a transparent buck-passing attempt for which I have only scoffing.

I do also realize that there are people who really do try to tell people they can't write about X topic or group, but, honestly, I can't consider those people with anything but scoffing either.

However.

I hereby declare that no Western steampunk fan is ever, ever again allowed to use the word "geisha" without first undergoing, and prominently displaying proof of, at least one full term of Japanese women's studies or the equivalent.


This post brought to you by a serious case of "omg, how are you related to me, can I disown you right now please" (national and fandom varieties).

Comments

[branchandroot]

Thank you. It's possible that we will eventually just have to agree not to discuss steampunk, which I'm willing to do, because I do quite enjoy reading you on other topics.

I agree that your objections are well-raised, too. The manifestations of steampunk that specifically call on steam while ignoring the implications of coal make me very uncomfortable, not least because one side of my family came from mining and there are family stories about the human cost. My own project solution to this is to assume that, yes, there is a period where coal is one primary energy source, and it has all its historical gruesomeness. But it doesn't last quite as long, and the global economy makes available a number of alternatives, such as hydro power and oil; none of these are without their own cost, to be sure, and I expect environmental degradation to be a higher profile issue sooner in this universe because of increased communication over such impact. And then, of course, there's the places where propulsion really is by magic.

Of course, I'm also tweaking things to let more of the 1848 revolutions succeed. This is an exercise in optimism, among other things. I'm trying to make it an exercise in conscious re-writing, though, rather than either myopic re-enactment or ignorant erasure.

You're right that there are significant portions, possibly even the majority, of steampunk fans who don't want to consider this, who want to treat steam as handwavium rather than as steam, who don't know or don't care about the history they're implicitly erasing. But there are also people, and I like to think I'm one of them, who are pulling in a different direction, trying to address and wrestle with the scary parts. There also seem to be those who leave off steam and go with wind-power or positrons or straight-up handwavium, all in a brass case (like the Foglios), or who want to talk about what might happen when gears and macro mechanics exist side by side with fission (okay, that's me again). And we are just as steampunk as anyone else.

If you don't want to wade through the former to find the latter, I don't blame you! And if you just plain don't like the historical revision at the heart of pretty much any steampunk project, whether clueless or not, that's fine too. If this is a topic we can't see eye to eye on, well, that happens sometimes. What I'm trying to do is come up with a plausible way for all this technology to happen earlier and more mixed up, and to take advantage of the social upsets that implies for every purpose from anti-colonialism to fashion remixes that maybe make people think; and that's steampunk too. If that still punches your buttons, well... hopefully we can agree to disagree.

[legionseagle]

Actually, I can see a lot of good in what you're trying to do, and I'm also trying to write an AU fantasy version of The Riddle of the Sands that if any publisher wants to put it in a genre, the genre will be steampunk (the irony!). But the tor.com month of steam-punk wound me up so badly, because no-one was standing there and saying "steam is evil power" in the way (can't you tell?) that me, raised by CND activists, can't read later Weber where suddenly Grayson nuclear fission has saved the asses of Manticore and huh! all that superstitious fear of nuclear turns out to be old-fashioned bollocks.

I think I'm still trying to work out if steampunk is a left-wing or a right wing genre, and I think it's mostly the latter/

[branchandroot]

*wry* I hear you about Weber and fission, and a lot of the military sub-genre are worse than him. *shudders* I'm afraid most of even the more aware fans within steampunk haven't gotten that far yet. Hell, there's only one other site I've found that's even extending the basic concepts beyond Europe. I think the step to "steam kills" is lagging even further because it isn't as immediately in front of most people's noses as the colonialism thing.

*thoughtful* It's an interesting question, actually. There are examples of both right and left aligned work, sometimes quite extreme ones (Moorcock, frex). I think there's also a disconnect between the "real life" of a lot of fans and the "dress up" parts. You run into a lot of that in the SCA too; there are no peasants, everyone is at least gentry, and one major thread of it is all about reifying "the biggest thug gets to rule", but no one would dream of or stand for applying that to their mundane lives. Of course, another major thread is absolute meritocracy, and the actual governance skews toward the latter, so it's... complicated. I doubt steampunk will quite get there, more's the pity, but I do take some small comfort in the fact that the actual artists, the creative powerhouses, tend to be more with the toolboxes and welding rigs than the top hats.

I'm really hoping that, if the artistic movement is around for long enough, it will evolve a political soul. Right now, if there is one, I think it's in its infancy.

[legionseagle]

I get the impression that thanks to people like Jaymee Goh there are people looking at some aspects of the colonial thing (though they aren't looking at coaling stations which, for me, are absolutely integral to the whole structure) and that's good, don't get me wrong, but the class problems of "steam kills" threatens to topple the whole edifice so that people like me saying "steam kills in general - how does your steam not kill in particular?" is something people are so hostile to that it's very rare to have someone like you prepared to even talk about it.

[branchandroot]

I believe it. Kind of the way a really freaking annoying subset of anime/manga fans react when I or anyone else point out the embedded misogyny. They don't want to think about that! This is just for fun! And anyway, it can't be real/that bad/right to point out for X spurious reason! *snorts* No. The cost is always there, and pretending it isn't is inexcusable.

[legionseagle]

Yes. So while I'm prepared to believe that I'm being inconsistent, compared to people I do read (Kipling!) I do have problems with steampunk that go beyond the obvious, and I get the impression that a lot of the writers in the sector haven't given any thought to the cost.

Thank you for being so understanding. I didn't set out to harsh your squee, just to mark where I stood in this regard. And while I know people are tackling the colonialism (though not many of them) I find the embedded classism just a bridge too far - surely someone should by now have spotted there's an issue, why am I the only person talking about it, oh look, there's this carpet and this brush and the darkness falls as usual.