Can't stand the handwavium

[branchandroot]

*drums fingers*

Okay, so it's not actually impossible to have an underground civilization of individuals who still depend on thermal-source light (photosynthesis, vitamin D and melatonin regulation and other neurochemical production). It's just STAGGERINGLY INEFFICIENT. I mean, when you have an actual star doing the fusion boogey to provide that in truly stunning abundance for the low, low price of, you know, standing on the surface of a planet, then packing everyone up and moving them underground where you'd have to have, let's be honest, sustained fusion level technology in order to supply enough light to thrive is... is... *waves hands inarticulately*

The thing is, light from electricity is, in itself, kind of stunningly inefficient. First you have to have something that powers the generators, and that's losing you something like 90% in the conversion process (it's a really appalling exchange rate for mechanical generation). So to sustain a wholly underground civilization? Yeah, we're definitely talking fusion if not actual matter-antimatter. Plus, frankly, the sheer arrogance to say, as a civilization, "we enjoy the benefits of complete shelter and controlled environment enough to pay this staggering energy-cost and think it a good deal".

Now, I could see losing that kind of technology in an extinction-level event. But that leaves us with the inescapable conclusion that there is no way Dixing could have gone back underground and survived. But if they built the capability back up, given the resentment we see in current day, I also see zero chance it wouldn't have been weaponized PDQ and kicked off another round of war.

The only reasonable solution I'm seeing here is Haixing basically subsidizing Dixing. Dedicating X percent of their resources and (eventually) their energy production to Dixing in return for Dixing's withdrawal. Which does make for tasty political complications, so all right I'll go with it, but it still makes my teeth itch with the flat out implausibility.

Comments

[trobadora]

an underground civilization of individuals who still depend on thermal-source light (photosynthesis, vitamin D and melatonin regulation and other neurochemical production)

Dixingren aren't human, though. We don't know that any of these things are true about them. Many of them like sunlight, though not all of them - mirrorZhou Weiwei avoided it, IIRC - but there's no hint at all that they're suffering any health issues due to the lack.

[branchandroot]

Except that they used to be, and even if their initial move under included some pretty stupendous gengineering, they are clearly still compatible with a surface environment and, as you say, still crave light based on the response of the ones who do sneak topside. If they'd genuinely succeeded in revising /all the bodily functions/ that are light dependent or light cued... they really shouldn't be either of those. We don't see health issues, no, and that's part of what makes my teeth itch so bad. If they're a different enough species to /not need light/, it /should/ have an impact on their compatibility with the surface! Just, ugh. The handwavium is way too handwavy for me to be happy.

[trobadora]

I don't understand what you mean by "used to be"? Dixingren were never human - they're aliens. Or are we talking about completely different things here?

[branchandroot]

Sorry, that was shorthand. They are a mutation *pauses to muffle up the wailing of her science-brain* of the species that landed and the surface-strain of whom refer to themselves as human and have all the physiological marks of a biology that functions a whole lot like, well, humans. They are also capable of interbreeding with Haixing-humans, which, actually now I think about it, means they /are/ still human, though I suppose there's the outstanding question of whether cross-breeds are fertile or not.

*hauls herself out of the rabbit-hole* Anyway! Insofar as the surface-strain is referred to as human, Dixingren used to be human.

[trobadora]

Ah, okay, I see! I suppose we have incompatible interpretations of canon, then, because the way I understand it, humans are native to the planet, whereas the ancestors of Dixingren and Yashou were aliens of completely different origin ...

[branchandroot]

Yeah, the intro bit leaves that completely open to either interpretation.

[ranalore]

I am very fond of this interpretation. The opening graphics kind of imply the Haixingren were there, but all the intro says is that "some" of the people in the spaceship mutated to take on the characteristics of plants and animals, and some went underground and gained powers. It's Daqing who says half those in the spaceship were Yashou, and the other Dixing, but by the time he's speaking about it, the spaceship landing is already at "age of legends" distance.

Plus, Shen Wei and Ye Zun grow up topside, with the strong implication in Shen Wei's backstory that they were born there, so it seems the Dixingren were originally in both places. And then when Shen Wei wakes up, he pretty much immediately returns to the surface. So, when he says Dixingren "don't need sunlight," how would he know? I mean, okay, professor of bio-engineering, and yeah, the implication when the Lantern is restored is that it serves as the source of "sunlight" for Dixing, so they would have had that until the Hallows scattered, but still. His assertion just doesn't seem to have any basis, and his own reaction to coming back to the surface after the pillar would argue that Dixingren do need sunlight. Maybe not as much as Haixingren, but it still looks like a mood booster, at the very least.

[branchandroot]

Plus this keeps me from having to (at least in my own mind) figure out how a species from a /different world/ could look so identical /and/ interbreed with no adjustments needed, because at that point we’re kind of looking at mimetic energy beings and I don’t think I have the strength for that.

And the Regent always mentions that they have few light resources, in particular, so a) there are some and b) it looms fairly large in /his/ mind at least. Plus, if Dixing needs light to survive down there, and have lost their prior generation technology, it totally explains why Haixing would have /let/ them have the Hallows right after a huge conflict in which a Dixing faction was the aggressor.