Shen Wei and Zhao Xinci
Sep. 22nd, 2019 03:13 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
branchandrootIn keeping with my tendency to have interesting thoughts right before I have to go off and do something else for a while (in this case, all the chores I put off to attend a wedding), I find myself thinking about how Shen Wei reacts to Zhao Yunlan's relationship to his father, and what it suggests about how much he knows when--and also how he's situating himself.
We know that Shen Wei is known to Zhao Xinci, and given that no point is made of how calmly Zhao Xinci takes Professor Shen's civilian appearance, it seems reasonable to suppose that identity was also known to Zhao Xinci before his retirement. This actually makes me think that their relationship was probably on the chilly side of collegial, since Shen Wei's entire reason for keeping it from Zhao Yunlan was to prevent ZYL being involved in anyone who might be coming after the Envoy in either of his persons. Shen Wei doesn't care if Zhao Xinci is caught up in that, but also doesn't seem to believe that Zhao Xinci would take the opportunity to make trouble for Professor Shen, despite what must have been Zhao Xinci's very evident hostility toward his people. So I'm reading this as limited trust in Zhao Xinci's professionalism, but some trust. Collegial but chilly.
Given Zhao Xinci's mono-focus on his work, I doubt he ever mentioned his son to Shen Wei. At least (I speculate) until Zhao Yunlan was made Chief of the SID. Because something must have kept Shen Wei from visiting the unit tasked with apprehending his people or making himself known to its Chief, after being willing to have the previous one know of his civilian identity. My personal theory is that Zhao Xinci asked Shen Wei to only visit if it's unavoidable in the course of business. How he justified that... well, I could certainly see him suggesting that Yunlan would likely be disrespectful and frustrating to deal with. But given how Shen Wei later says (even after seeing what an asshole Zhao Xinci is capable of being to his son) that Zhao Yunlan was made Chief because Zhao Xinci believes in him, it also seems likely that there was something in what Zhao Xinci said that could be interpreted as pride in his son.
And I could also see Shen Wei, who is very aware of how feared he is, interpreting this as Zhao Xinci wanting to protect his son.
So, entering the window of canon, when Shen Wei notes that Zhao Yunlan gets all white-knuckled while discussing his father, and deflects questions about it later, my theory is that he thinks this is a normal degree of father-son tensions going on. He's seen, by then, that Zhao Yunlan is Zhao Xinci's opposite in a lot of ways--intuitive, brilliant, unconventional--so it's quite reasonable to think that they would not always get along, probably have difficulty communicating. But if said difficulty affects Zhao Yunlan so, then it probably also seems reasonable that they do love each other still.
Which further suggests that, when Shen Wei goes along with Zhao Yunlan to visit his mother's grade, and Zhao Yunlan tenses up over seeing the flowers his father had brought, Shen Wei isn't talking at random. When he brings up the fact that many of his people resent him for his apparent betrayal of Dixing's interests, not understanding that he's just trying to keep the peace, he's also talking about Zhao Xinci. He's trying, sidelong, to help reconcile father and son, because he hasn't yet seen anything except understandable family tension surrounding what he already knows is Zhao Xinci's tunnel vision over his work and the family tragedy that was, in part, a result of it.
Similarly, when he goes to talk with Zhao Xinci behind Yunlan's back, asking Zhao Xinci to keep the Ministry away from Zhao Yunlan, as far as he knows he's asking someone else who loves Zhao Yunlan to help protect him (an impression that Zhang Shi reinforces). I think he knows perfectly well Zhao Yunlan will be pissed off, if he learns of it. I also think there's some consternation in Shen Wei's reaction, when Zhao Yunlan asks if he can ever trust Shen Wei again, because of this. My reading, here, is that he still doesn't understand why Zhao Yunlan reacts that badly.
As an aside, I also think Shen Wei's attitude toward Zhao Xinci during that interview reflects most strongly where he's situating himself, in this relationship. He's remarkably conciliatory, given his shock, disbelief, and anger in the lab, when he realizes what the Institute is doing with that 'serum experiment'. And I theorize that it's because he's not just speaking with the Director of the Bureau of Supervision--he's speaking to his beloved's father. He's speaking to prospective family in-law. He's trying to be proper about it.
Which brings us to the roof, when the SID arrives just in time to keep Zhao Xinci from getting killed, and Yunlan offers himself in his father's place, and his father proceeds to heap contempt on him in an effort to prevent Wang Xiangyang from thinking he can hurt Zhao Xinci by taking Yunlan up on it. It obviously hurts Zhao Yunlan, by he's not shocked. He expects those kind of words, if not perhaps quite that virulence.
What fascinates me is Shen Wei's response. He's shocked, I think. But he doesn't, then, respond with anger toward Zhao Xinci. Instead he turns his whole attention on Zhao Yunlan, ignoring even the bad guys, everything channeled into concern for Yunlan. As homicidally protective as he is of Yunlan at pretty much every other moment, that caught my attention. Together with his attitude toward Zhao Xinci when they meet in re the experiment and Yunlan, it makes me think that Shen Wei still has Zhao Xinci marked off, in his head, for familial treatment. When Zhao Xinci attacks Yunlan, that doesn’t seem to undo his status-marker. My reading is that Shen Wei ignoring Zhao Xinci is how he’s dealing with the conflict between that and his essential need to erase anything that threatens Zhao Yunlan.
Which suggests, in turn, that there is /all sorts/ of glorious awkwardness in their future. I do have to suspect that Shen Wei’s treatment of Zhao Xinci as family is contingent on Zhao Yunlan continuing to demonstrate some desire for that to be the case. If Yunlan ever fully and finally decides that he’s done trying, Zhao Xinci would be well advised to keep his head down lest he lose it.
We know that Shen Wei is known to Zhao Xinci, and given that no point is made of how calmly Zhao Xinci takes Professor Shen's civilian appearance, it seems reasonable to suppose that identity was also known to Zhao Xinci before his retirement. This actually makes me think that their relationship was probably on the chilly side of collegial, since Shen Wei's entire reason for keeping it from Zhao Yunlan was to prevent ZYL being involved in anyone who might be coming after the Envoy in either of his persons. Shen Wei doesn't care if Zhao Xinci is caught up in that, but also doesn't seem to believe that Zhao Xinci would take the opportunity to make trouble for Professor Shen, despite what must have been Zhao Xinci's very evident hostility toward his people. So I'm reading this as limited trust in Zhao Xinci's professionalism, but some trust. Collegial but chilly.
Given Zhao Xinci's mono-focus on his work, I doubt he ever mentioned his son to Shen Wei. At least (I speculate) until Zhao Yunlan was made Chief of the SID. Because something must have kept Shen Wei from visiting the unit tasked with apprehending his people or making himself known to its Chief, after being willing to have the previous one know of his civilian identity. My personal theory is that Zhao Xinci asked Shen Wei to only visit if it's unavoidable in the course of business. How he justified that... well, I could certainly see him suggesting that Yunlan would likely be disrespectful and frustrating to deal with. But given how Shen Wei later says (even after seeing what an asshole Zhao Xinci is capable of being to his son) that Zhao Yunlan was made Chief because Zhao Xinci believes in him, it also seems likely that there was something in what Zhao Xinci said that could be interpreted as pride in his son.
And I could also see Shen Wei, who is very aware of how feared he is, interpreting this as Zhao Xinci wanting to protect his son.
So, entering the window of canon, when Shen Wei notes that Zhao Yunlan gets all white-knuckled while discussing his father, and deflects questions about it later, my theory is that he thinks this is a normal degree of father-son tensions going on. He's seen, by then, that Zhao Yunlan is Zhao Xinci's opposite in a lot of ways--intuitive, brilliant, unconventional--so it's quite reasonable to think that they would not always get along, probably have difficulty communicating. But if said difficulty affects Zhao Yunlan so, then it probably also seems reasonable that they do love each other still.
Which further suggests that, when Shen Wei goes along with Zhao Yunlan to visit his mother's grade, and Zhao Yunlan tenses up over seeing the flowers his father had brought, Shen Wei isn't talking at random. When he brings up the fact that many of his people resent him for his apparent betrayal of Dixing's interests, not understanding that he's just trying to keep the peace, he's also talking about Zhao Xinci. He's trying, sidelong, to help reconcile father and son, because he hasn't yet seen anything except understandable family tension surrounding what he already knows is Zhao Xinci's tunnel vision over his work and the family tragedy that was, in part, a result of it.
Similarly, when he goes to talk with Zhao Xinci behind Yunlan's back, asking Zhao Xinci to keep the Ministry away from Zhao Yunlan, as far as he knows he's asking someone else who loves Zhao Yunlan to help protect him (an impression that Zhang Shi reinforces). I think he knows perfectly well Zhao Yunlan will be pissed off, if he learns of it. I also think there's some consternation in Shen Wei's reaction, when Zhao Yunlan asks if he can ever trust Shen Wei again, because of this. My reading, here, is that he still doesn't understand why Zhao Yunlan reacts that badly.
As an aside, I also think Shen Wei's attitude toward Zhao Xinci during that interview reflects most strongly where he's situating himself, in this relationship. He's remarkably conciliatory, given his shock, disbelief, and anger in the lab, when he realizes what the Institute is doing with that 'serum experiment'. And I theorize that it's because he's not just speaking with the Director of the Bureau of Supervision--he's speaking to his beloved's father. He's speaking to prospective family in-law. He's trying to be proper about it.
Which brings us to the roof, when the SID arrives just in time to keep Zhao Xinci from getting killed, and Yunlan offers himself in his father's place, and his father proceeds to heap contempt on him in an effort to prevent Wang Xiangyang from thinking he can hurt Zhao Xinci by taking Yunlan up on it. It obviously hurts Zhao Yunlan, by he's not shocked. He expects those kind of words, if not perhaps quite that virulence.
What fascinates me is Shen Wei's response. He's shocked, I think. But he doesn't, then, respond with anger toward Zhao Xinci. Instead he turns his whole attention on Zhao Yunlan, ignoring even the bad guys, everything channeled into concern for Yunlan. As homicidally protective as he is of Yunlan at pretty much every other moment, that caught my attention. Together with his attitude toward Zhao Xinci when they meet in re the experiment and Yunlan, it makes me think that Shen Wei still has Zhao Xinci marked off, in his head, for familial treatment. When Zhao Xinci attacks Yunlan, that doesn’t seem to undo his status-marker. My reading is that Shen Wei ignoring Zhao Xinci is how he’s dealing with the conflict between that and his essential need to erase anything that threatens Zhao Yunlan.
Which suggests, in turn, that there is /all sorts/ of glorious awkwardness in their future. I do have to suspect that Shen Wei’s treatment of Zhao Xinci as family is contingent on Zhao Yunlan continuing to demonstrate some desire for that to be the case. If Yunlan ever fully and finally decides that he’s done trying, Zhao Xinci would be well advised to keep his head down lest he lose it.
no subject
Date: 2019-09-22 07:33 pm (UTC)1. Given the timeline, I think it's probable Zhao Xinci was the one whom the Regent contacted and who set up Shen Wei's civilian identity, so of course he'd know about the Professor secretly being from Dixing. (The SID is in charge of Dixingian affairs and Zhao Xinci is its founding head; the Regent mentions he knows just whom to ask re: a Haixing identity for the Envoy, IIRC.)
2. Shen Wei was orphaned at a young age (before the meteor hit, even) and basically raised himself. He has no clue what any regular family relationships are like.
no subject
Date: 2019-09-23 12:04 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-09-22 08:34 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-09-23 12:05 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-09-23 12:58 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-09-22 10:49 pm (UTC)So I'm reading this as limited trust in Zhao Xinci's professionalism, but some trust. Collegial but chilly.
Yes, that's how I see it, too. Despite Zhao Xinci's unpleasant attitude towards Dixingren he can't have behaved too badly in front of the Envoy; Shen Wei has reason to expect professional behaviour from him, and also to believe that Zhao Xinci cares about his son. (Which he does! Even if he shows it in the worst possible ways, LOL.)
Also, Shen Wei seems surprised at Zhao Yunlan's reaction when the Minister brings up his father, and he asks after it later. That says to me that he had no idea their relationship was this bad - he must have known they weren't close, and that they had disagreements - there's a lot of talk about how different the SID is under Zhao Yunlan, after all - but that Zhao Yunlan felt this strongly is new to Shen Wei. And even so, I agree - he still doesn't get realise just how deeply it cuts, not until that rooftop scene.
When he brings up the fact that many of his people resent him for his apparent betrayal of Dixing's interests, not understanding that he's just trying to keep the peace, he's also talking about Zhao Xinci.
Huh, that's not something that ever occurred to me. I'll have to keep that in mind for my next rewatch!
no subject
Date: 2019-09-23 12:07 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-09-23 02:31 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-09-23 02:59 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-09-23 02:41 am (UTC)Because I always get snagged on the apparent non sequitur of that remark from Shen Wei, at that point in time. It makes me feel like I'm missing something. So I too will be watching for that next time.
But, just checking, do you mean he's talking about Zhao Xinci as someone who resents Shen Wei for his apparent betrayal of Dixing's interests, or do you mean he's making an analogy and suggesting Zhao Xinci judges Zhao Yunlan for his apparent betrayal of Haixing interests? I mean, would Zhao Xinci judge Shen Wei for (apparently) being on Haixing's side? I'd have thought he'd applaud that. /wry
*nodnod* Though I think he's also being a diplomat. He is the ambassador of Dixing, after all, and it's not like trying to throw his weight around will do Dixing any favours, you know? He doesn't have a whole lot of leverage, especially as someone who's trying to maintain peace.
no subject
Date: 2019-09-23 03:08 pm (UTC)*thoughtful* I wonder about the weight that the Envoy might have to throw, though, you know? I mean, history says that it was only through an alliance that /included/ Dixingren that even a /faction/ of Dixingren were kept from taking over. And from what the Dixingren-on-the-street seems to say about how the upper world doesn't have anything to recommend it, it seems that it's more a flat out misinformation campaign than any threat of force that keeps them where they are (for the most part). And the Minister comes kissing distance from calling in the army when (again) a mere faction invades. It really seems like there's a /whole lot/ of weight behind the Envoy who holds the strings of Dixing peacefulness in his hands. Which is a tangent, especially since Shen Wei /is/ dedicated to diplomatic solutions! But it's something I've always found an interesting tension in the politics of the show.
no subject
Date: 2019-09-23 10:45 pm (UTC)*facepalm* Oh, right. That makes a lot of sense. Thanks!
no subject
Date: 2019-09-23 05:06 am (UTC)When he brings up the fact that many of his people resent him for his apparent betrayal of Dixing's interests, not understanding that he's just trying to keep the peace, he's also talking about Zhao Xinci. He's trying, sidelong, to help reconcile father and son
Do you mean: Shen Wei is saying that just as he himself is paying a price for trying to keep the peace [price=Dixing people resenting him], Zhao Xinci is also paying a price for trying to keep the peace [price=not having a great relationship with his son]? That puts a fascinating new context into that scene (which I'm getting close to in my latest rewatch, so I will be viewing it with a new perspective -- so cool!).
no subject
Date: 2019-09-23 02:59 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-09-23 12:51 pm (UTC)This is how I've always read that scene, since the very first time I watched it! That Shen Wei was being conciliatory to the effect of, "We people who're hell-bent on performing our duties are sometimes resented by our own; some Dixingren regard the Envoy as a traitor to their kind, while you think your father turned his back on his family when he decided to put his job first. But I think you should give him a chance: just as I still love Dixing, I believe your father still loves you and your mother."
Then when I got into the fandom and saw people criticising Shen Wei for the "inappropriate" way he was behaving while visiting someone's grave, I was like ??? Zhao Yunlan didn't seem to be bothered by what Shen Wei was saying at all, imo. His response ("You've gotta tell me all about your experiences as the Envoy later) was basically him saying, "I get what you're hinting at, but things are still a bit too delicate between dad and me for me to be ready for that discussion now."
As for his courteousness towards Zhao Xinci, the motivation is likely twofold: One, as a foreign diplomat, it'd be unprofessional of him to be openly hostile or disrespectful towards an influential member of another country/dimension. Two, as you said, is likely his consideration towards ZYL. For all ZYL's attitude towards his father, I don't think he'd much appreciate his lover/love interest being threatening towards the old man.
ETA: Another thing is that I think Shen Wei has, if not respect, at least some degree of regard for the rigidity of ZXC's principles. He's the kind of guy who can be counted on to keep his word, and whose motives are straightforward and unwavering, making him one of the safer people to enter into an agreement with re: delicate inter-dimensional relations... And possibly interpersonal ones as well. Also, it's obvious that he'd never willingly put ZYL in danger, which definitely gains him a good chunk of Shen Wei's cordiality, imo.
no subject
Date: 2019-09-23 02:56 pm (UTC)