While we're at it

[branchandroot]

While we're talking about raising consciousness, bell has a point/post/discussion going on on her journal about the Russian-hating that is so carelessly and copiously flung about, whenever LJ fails again.*

Ever since the SUP buyout I, and I'm sure everyone else who has ever followed the news posts on LJ, have seen a lot of extremely bigoted, ignorant and, frankly, McCarthy-esque things said. One common theme is "In Soviet Russia" remarks; another is to call LJ personnel "commie pinkos". I wish I could even say this were done ironically, which would be offensive enough, but in most cases it appears to be straight-up earnest bigotry in all its brainless glory. I find these especially brainless given that a) Soviet Russia no longer exists as such and b) the fail in question is so often driven by bare-faced market capitalism just like it was under 6A.

Were 6A ever called capitalist pigs? Multiple times in every heated post? Were they referred to at every turn as Americans or San Franciscans as though that somehow explained why they were bad? If you guessed "no" you would be right, which makes the explicitly Russian-nation-hate behind this pervasive name calling nastily clear.

And I could lecture until I'm blue in the face about the fact that the people of Russia have always had minds of their own, or the difference between communism as an economic and political theory of activism and State Communism, or the extremely distinct difference between democracy and capitalism, or the beauty of Mikhail Bakhtin's writing, but all of that is beside the actual point. In fact, my or your opinion of communism or of Russia or of LJ is beside the point.

Because the actual point is: national slurs are just as ugly and inexcusable as any other kind of slur (racial, gender, sexual, religious, physical, whathaveyou). They represent the triumph of parochial ignorance and fear over actual knowledge and thought, and thinking people need to do two things. One, they need to not engage in this themselves. Two, they need to speak up when they see other people doing it.

The capsule version: national, political and ethnic slurs are Not Okay. Don't do it.


* Note that I in no way accuse Syn of this, though her initial phrasing was not as aware of this dynamic as would have been ideal.

Comments

[armadillo]

As someone who IS Russian, I really appreciate this post. National slurs are never okay.

Also, Mikhail Bakhtin is awesome!

[branchandroot]

Bakhtin is so awesome! He's my favorite theorist. ^_^

[marina]

Saw this through Syn's rlist; As someone who was born in the USSR, speaks Russian as a native tongue and identifies as Russian in her everyday life - thank you for this post.

[branchandroot]

You're very welcome. I was really shocked when I first saw this stuff showing up on LJ.

[bell]

Woah! You put into words what I was too frustrated to formulate beyond "THIS IS NOT COOL." Thank you, I've linked to this post in my entry.

[branchandroot]

Thank you for your entry, too! I've been meaning for a while to write /something/ about this, and your exchanges really crystallized it.

[dragonwolf]

To be honest, it kind of bugs me just how much people in general go nuts on the wrong people.

For example, Bell's issue with synecdochic's use of "Moscow" for "LJ Headquarters." While it's not unfounded, considering the rampant slandering that does go on, it is, in my opinion tragically misplaced in this case.

I don't know how much you are into technology, but in the computer circles, Microsoft is often referred to as "Redmond," as in Redmond, Washington, where their headquarters is located. Note that this has nothing to do with, nor reflects on, the city itself, nor the state, nor either of their governments.

Considering the nature of Syn's former employment at LJ (both the nature of her job itself, which was technology/programming-based, and her time there, which ended only a few months prior to the sale to SUP, so it's extremely likely that she already knew about it), as well as the changes going on while she was working there, it's not surprising to me that she referred to LJ's Russian HQ as "Moscow." Given that point of view, it's also evident that it was by no means intended to refer to anything other than LJHQ, and also explains her initial misunderstanding as to why people found her usage so offensive.

That's not to say that it wasn't a poor decision to use such wording, especially considering the wide audience to which it was even likely to reach (let alone the audience it actually reached). However, I, for one, am far more inclined to chalk it up to an honest mistake from someone who is probably used to using lingo than to a slur (even if the readers have never seen any other LJ/DW user refer to a company by the city in which it's headquartered, it's also not very likely that they have many LJ employees/former employees who are on a dev team and in a position to feel comfortable talking about anything regarding LJ).

On the same token, those who really are using the various slurs do need bitchslapped, but, in my opinion (at least for a good chunk of the people), more for their misplaced anger/frustration (and those who are doing it just because in their twisted worlds, Communism is the root of all evil and Russia still represents Communism, despite having not been Communist for nearly 20 years now, just need drug out into the street and shot).

From what I've seen (from those who expressed exactly why they were angry and were actually civil enough to not resort to the "commie" rhetoric garbage), a lot of the issue that has resulted in the tension between the American userbase and the Russian userbase is that SUP has seemed (in the eyes of the user) to neglect the American userbase (even more than 6A did) and seem to favor the Russian userbase. The dissolution of the American HQ and move to Russia didn't help, nor did the allegations of SUP wanting to turn LJ into a Russian MySpace. (Note: It doesn't excuse their use of slurs, nor does it excuse their targeting the Russian userbase, but I think it does do more to help solve the problem than all the bitching that goes on in the general discussions, because if you take the time to find out why someone does something, you're better positioned to remedy the issue.)

I'd probably say more, but I commented in bell's entry, which you linked, as well. It goes into a little more detail about some of the other things causing tension, as well as other observations about possible explanations for why Syn didn't see her word choice as offending (though, I think what I described in this comment about Syn is a bit more articulate and polished than the comment there). I also have to leave now.

[branchandroot]

Yes? Well it bugs me a lot when people don't actually read what I write before going off. I specifically said that I am not accusing Syn of doing any of what I describe here. The resonance her phrasing unfortunately had with this separate issue is merely the spark to this conversation. Supposing it is possible to have that conversation successfully without being distracted by red herrings like your off-topic protests above.

As I also pointed out very explicitly, this is not about LJ. It is about a pattern among people which take LJ's various mis-managements as an excuse to spew vicious national slurs.

Whether you realize it or not, you are engaging in a classic pattern of derailment, here. Please stop.

[yvi]

Thank you for saying this. I am not Russian myself, I am German (which comes with its own set of 'funny jokes' and 'people not getting it's not WWII anmore'), but I do see a lot of xenophobia directed at everyone east of Germany in my country. And that comment explaining people why something is the way it is while many people do get it is such classic derailing...

(And, by the way, dragonwolf, if you read this: Syn's job was never "technology/programming-based" at LJ. She was the head of User Support and the Abuse Team. Syn learned programming for Dreamwidth.)

[branchandroot]

My pleasure. I was lucky enough, as a Statesider, to have a professor or two back in undergrad who got me interested in Russian lit and critics, and from there to the history, which was... an interesting experience to study during the end of the Cold War. So, yeah, I'm really not interested in making room for apologia for people's disgusting habits of narrowmindedness which is the /nice/ way of describing some behavior we see in the news posts et al.

[alex_beecroft]

Here from metafandom, with nothing more intelligent to say than that I thought LJ's customer service and responsiveness to our concerns had got better under SUP. I can't imagine the old management responding so quickly to the potential uproar over losing the 'decline to say' gender option. If the old lot had reacted as quickly I wouldn't have found it necessary to have a DW account at all.

[absque_setentia]

another is to call LJ personnel "commie pinkos"

People actually do this? D:

As a European (Scandinavian) who is exposed to racism against Russians and Eastern Europeans on an almost daily basis these days, and as a socialist, this thing is frustrating to me on so many levels. How anyone can not get that it is wrong to say stuff like that is beyond me.

(Here via metafandom)

[branchandroot]

They do. I was shocked when I first saw it, but then I was raised in a pretty liberal household and went to a pretty liberal college, too. People's ability to tell themselves "oh, it's all right because..." is just appalling.

[susanreads]

(Here via metafandom)

I don't hang out on LJ, and I hadn't seen this; I thought references to Russian overlords were a joke on the "I, for one, welcome our new [fill in the blank] overlords" pattern. The other things you refer to, yeuch. "Commie pinkos"? Just how bad is the education system where these people live?

Your capsule version is brilliant.

[branchandroot]

Yeah, reading the LJ news comm has really given me the cold grues at times, wondering how long idiocy can hold on.

[tree]

(here from metafandom with nothing useful to add, but i couldn't help but stop to say: yay bakhtin! he and blanchot are two of my favourite theorists.)

[branchandroot]

(Bakhtin rocks my world. ^_^)